Karan Johar In Conversation with Sadhguru – Live from Mumbai – June 4, 2017

Karan Johar In Conversation with Sadhguru – Live from Mumbai – June 4, 2017


Interviewer (Karan Johar): Good morning sir. Sadhguru: Namaskaram (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Two things I’ve never been in my life are thin and nervous (Laughter), and I still haven’t been able to get over the former but the latter is still very operational at this moment (Sadhguru laughs). It’s because I don’t know what to say because I feel I’ve lived with you in this last week. I’ve done all my research, watched all your shows, from (Sadhguru laughs) Sadhguru: See, you have you have done your homework but because I am homeless (Laughter), I’ve I have not done my homework. Interviewer (Karan Johar): I have done a fair amount of my homework. I have watched everyone from Anupam Kher to Juhi Chawla in conversation with you, Barkha Dutt, to a very subdued Arnab Goswami as well (Laughter/Applause). I do believe in your mystical power because you managed to achieve that and I think that is not anything lesser of an achievement than you’ve done (Sadhguru laughs) within your span of tremendous work, Sadhguru, so my felicitations on that achievement (Both laugh). And more than anything else, when I just saw the AV that all of us saw, I’ve heard all these terminologies associated with you, which is from the monk on a motorcycle, rockstar spiritual energy, and I saw that happen. You’re on a motorbike, you are flying a helicopter. So there are so many terms that I said, rockstar spiritual energy and I want to create my own one say you’re like almost the Santa Claus of spirituality (Laughter), because you bring the energy through that chimney of life and I think have really touched so many millions of people across the world. So we are blessed to be in your presence at this moment and I can’t wait to be in conversation, which is I am going to start. But I just want to start by saying that this is truly an honor, so thank you (Applause). I mean, as a filmmaker, as a human being, as a member of a humanitarian community, my head is always buzzing with so many questions and I think we bottle it down to some spiritual inquiries, some religious ones. There’s always been a debate about these two terms – religion and then spirituality. There are people who feel like, “I’m not religious, I’m spiritual” and I’m not quite sure they know the meaning of that. But they use it because sometimes terms are just thrown around. To those people who are at the crossroad between religion and spirituality, what is your answer to that dilemma? Sadhguru: See, we must understand this. It is in the very nature of human intelligence that if you do not know something, if you realize you do not know something – because most people do not realize that they do not know (Laughs) – if you realize that you do not know, it’s very natural for your intelligence to seek to know. It doesn’t need a guru, it doesn’t need a scripture, it doesn’t need somebody to introduce that to you. It is in the nature of your intelligence that you wish to know. There’re lots of experiments to show, even mice, if you leave them in a place, within two minutes they will research everything in that space – for their own reasons of course. For survival reasons, they, you know, inquire into everything around them to find out how the place is. Human intelligence goes beyond survival. So naturally, human intelligence seeks to know many more things, which does not concern our survival. Yes, we are concerned about survival till a point. But once that’s taken care of, we cannot rest. We want to know more, endlessly more. The more we realize we do not know, the more the longing to know. So this longing to know, when it finds a very intense expression in the form of seeking, we call this spiritual process. Or in other words, the basis of spirituality is a realization that, “I do not know” (Karan Johar laughs) But the moment you say, “I’m religious”, you refer to yourself as a believer. When you say you’re a believer, what you are saying is, “Everything that I do not know, I will make it up.” How I make it up, whose help I seek to make it up, may be varying from person to person. Somebody makes it up because of… with spiritual assist with scriptural assistance, somebody makes it up with the assistance of a priest, or a pundit, or a guru, or whatever. But you seek some authority. You kind of make some compromise in your life, that instead of truth, you settle for an authority as the truth. Spiritual process means truth is the only authority for you, authority is never the truth for you. So these are two different aspects, unfortunately spoken in the same breath most of the time. So, I would say spiritual process is far closer to scientific inquiry. See, even the fly is trying to investigate me (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Trust me, I am not investigating (Both laugh), I am just inquiring and I wish I was the size of that fly but anyway Sadhguru: (Overlapping conversation) No, no I did not I did not use the word investigation in a negative way, nothing wrong with investigation. Investigation means you want to know the truth. Maybe it’s done little forcefully like a fly (Laughter). He’s coming to you now (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): That’s all I get these days (Laughter). Sadhguru: No, if you get to fly, what more (Laughter)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, you manage pretty well, I have a fear of turbulence (Both laugh), so flying is really not on my top three things to do in life. Sadhguru: So, spiritual process does not demand belief because belief and spiritual process cannot go together. Spiritual process is a constant inquiry to It is a way of sharpening your questions, so they dig deeper and deeper – not into something else but into yourself, the nature of your existence… Because the nature of human existence is such that in our experience, the only thing that you can experience is yourself. You actually believe you’re experiencing many things, but you only know everything the way it happens within you. You do not know any other way. Even now if you see these people, it looks like they are there, but actually you know them or you see them only the way they’re projected in the firmament of our minds. There is no other way. There is no other way for you to experience this life (Referring to oneself), except the way it happens within you. Now spiritual process is a constant effort to see that the way that it happens within me is not a distorted vision, that my mirror is not a wonky mirror, it is a plain mirror (Laughs), that it shows me things the way they… way things are, it doesn’t distort anything. Because of my thought, because of my emotion, because of my attachments, because of my identities, because of the philosophies and ideologies that I identify with, I can distort my mirror. Now, I deprive myself of all that, so that I have a plain mirror and I get to see everything just the way it is. This is spiritual process. Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, well, thank you because that’s always been a continued dilemma. And I believe that the word spirituality is sometimes misused, where there is not a grave understanding of what it really is. And as you said, that the “I don’t know” has immense power and I think acknowledging the “I don’t knows” of your life really means everything and I wish people would start doing that because according to me, sometimes delusion is the biggest disease that plagues humanity (Sadhguru laughs), when you’re not aware of your own self. Sadhguru: No, there are… there are all kinds of idiots on the planet (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah, we work with many of them (Laughter). Sadhguru: But we must understand this, in the very nature of who we are, it is such… like this, if you do something stupid today, tonight your intelligence will bother you, “Why did I do this?” This is the nature of human intelligence. But the moment your stupidity is either scripture-endorsed or god-endorsed, you can go on doing the same idiotic thing with enormous confidence. It gives you confidence without clarity. Confidence without clarity is a disastrous process. If you do not have clarity, at least you must have hesitation (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes that’s true (Both laugh). Well, I have to say that I was – I want to personalize this a little bit – I was at a crossroad about thirteen years ago and my father was very critically ill. And at that juncture of my life and before that, religion was organized in my life. It was what was taught to me. It was what I thought the right thing to do was. When he was in his last stage, there were things suggested to me, which were to me now completely ridiculous, including going to a certain temple and feeding a cow of a certain color and doing a certain ritual at home and all those things that one did even without even thinking, because as you said, when you spoke about the idiots on this planet, I was definitely one of those in that stage in my life. But sometimes you reach a critical stage, where you seek any kind of desperate measure and you try to kind of hold on to any hope, that even something that is advocated to you that goes against your grain of intelligence or thought. To those people, what is your advice, who have reached the end of their rope and are hanging on and holding on to anything, be it religious, be it spiritual, or be it an unfounded piece of advice? Sadhguru: See, for all this, the fundamental basis of these kind of aspirations or actions is because people are just shit scared of life. Why is it so? It’s like this. Suppose you sat on a bicycle, on stand, you know, and started simply pedaling for fun. But it came off the stand and started rolling – anxiety. Faster – fear. Very fast – terror. The fundamental reason is But someone who knows how to ride a bicycle, the faster it goes, the better it is. But for someone who does not know how to ride a bicycle, the moment it moves, terror will happen. So the fundamental thing is just this. You have been given a very complex and sophisticated vehicle to pass through the process of this life, which is human mechanism. There is body, mind, emotion, energy, many dimensions to it. Essentially, this human mechanism is a very complex phenomena. Now you are going at it, you are trying to walk through life without understanding a thing about the vehicle that you are using. Every time it moves, there is terror. If it doesn’t move, you want to die of boredom. If it moves, you’re terrorized. There is no way out of it. Tell me one thing… Tell me one thing that human beings are not suffering? If they are poor, they suffer poverty, if they become rich, they suffer taxes. If they are not educated, they suffer that, you send them to school, endless suffering (Laughter). They are not married, they suffer that, you get them married (Gestures) (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah, I was heading to that next. Sadhguru: I didn’t say a thing, they are the ones (Laughter) Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, that’s an extreme validation of the institution (Both laugh). Sadhguru: So, tell me one thing that they’re not suffering. So now somebody develops a philosophy – life is suffering. You know, there are philosophies like this (Laughter). Now it’s not about life because you’ve not even touched life yet. All that you’re dabbling with is right now your own thought and emotion and it’s going crazy. So, you are on a bicycle that you don’t know how to ride. But this (Referring to oneself) is not just a simple two-wheeled bicycle, it’s a complex machine. You don’t know how to ride. You don’t know how to manage your thought. You don’t know how to manage your emotion. All these things, human experience is essentially happening from within you. Whether it’s misery or joy, agony or ecstasy is happening from within you. At least what happens from within you must happen your way, isn’t it? The world will not happen your way. But the problem now is what happens within you is not happening yeur… your way. What’s happening in your mind is a dream. Even your dream is not happening your way, that’s the problem (Laughs). The problem is not that your life is not happening your way, even your dream is not happening your way. And this is the source of their misery but they think it’s marriage, they think it’s children, they think it’s poverty – no. Fundamentally, it is just that you are not happening the way you want yourself to be. That’s all your misery is. So, even if you want to learn to ride a bicycle, it’s a simple basic machine. It needs a certain level of attention and involvement, otherwise you can’t ride a bicycle. Takes an enormous amount of intent to want to ride it, otherwise it’s quite impossible to ride a bicycle. After you know how to ride it, you can let your hands off, you can close your eyes and do all these things. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Pretty much like marriage (Laughter) because like wheels are turning but going nowhere – at times (Laughs). Sadhguru: No, no, I wouldn’t like to make that statement (Karan Johar laughs) because for a many people they have gotten somewhere with marriage (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes, we’d like to find out where (Laughter), but on another forum. When you speak about suffering, Sadhguru, it is definitely something that I believe that self-pity sometimes is like a luxury spa. It’s somewhere where your comfort lies. Self-pity is I believe the most indulgent emotion and gets you nowhere but makes you feel really good for a certain period of time. What is your take on something like self-pity? Sadhguru: How is being pitiful a luxury? I don’t understand that. Interviewer (Karan Johar): It becomes, you know You get great solace in that emotion (Sadhguru laughs) for a short period of time. Self-pity can be the most happy place to be at, like self-indulgences. Sadhguru: See, there are many ways to achieve piece, happiness, well-being. Tch, this happened. Shankaran Pillai (Laughter), in his he was a little abusive husband, verbally abusive. So he would rant at his wife but she was always peaceful, never reacted. One day in the middle of his raging rant, he stopped and he asked, “Whatever I say, how much ever I abuse you, you are peaceful. How do you do this?” She said, “I clean the toilet.” He said, “What? Cleaning the toilet, how does it make you peaceful?” She said, “I use your toothbrush” (Laughter). So, don’t fall on to that Interviewer (Karan Johar): You are giving lots of people ideas (Laughter). So that’s not a relationship, it’s a revenge story (Laughs). Sadhguru: No, you can achieve peace and solace in so many different ways, I am saying (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Which is what you said, to draw from within to find your solutions, because the most exciting line that I read was that life can’t touch you, can’t scratch you, it can’t harm you, you create your own energy in your own life. You’re in this universe, you’ve been brought into this world and it’s in your control, what you do with it. Life has nothing against you. What you achieve and what you do is a result of your own actions, your feelings, the pleasantness that you create within yourself, which to me was a very moving line because it simplified a very extensive and expansive feeling of anxiety, fear and all the turbulence that humanity goes through on a daily basis. To me, three pillars of our existence are pretty much family, fortune and farishta, which is what I believe result of god, religion, everything else. When we talk about family, Sadhguru, there are few things that have always intrigued me and I seek answers or rather validation from a higher energy such as yourself. It’s like I’ve always questioned why there’s an organic distance between a father and son, why there is always that angst in that relationship. And I am sure there are many in this house that have experienced that emotion in their own homes, in their own environment. Where do you think the origin of that distance came? Sadhguru: Because every generation makes the same mistake (Laughs), which means they’re not learning at all (Laughs). When we say family You know, in Italy, family meant crime. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Crime? Sadhguru: Yeah, mafia was always referred to as the family. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Family. Sadhguru: Yes. So in a way, it’s a kind of crime. It is the most basic institution in the making of a society, but it does not mean you must remain basic. Because this is a biological identity that we have. Biology is a reality, we can’t deny it. Obviously this (Referring to oneself) was In some way, at least to a certain extent, our parents gave this (Referring to oneself) to us, one part of it at least. Today the way it is, the way it looks is essentially because of them. Well, it was given to them by somebody else, that’s another point. But to us, it was given by them. So it’s a biological identity. This limiting oneself to one’s biological idetity identity for an entire lifetime is… is a crime because it creates so many things. In this country This country has suffered a lot from a long time. Just now you released the Mahabharat video. Entire Mahabharat is family problem. It is Dhritarashtra syndrome. We are still suffering (Karan Johar laughs). “My son is best, no matter what.” Even today we are suffering the same thing. “My son is best and he should become the king, no matter what.” It’s not just… Interviewer (Karan Johar): Some sons haven’t managed very well, some have (Both laugh). Sadhguru: So, family is a basic identity that we are born with. It’s a wonderful thing when you are a child because without that family support, you wouldn’t be who you are today in many ways, okay? With all due respect and regard and great respect for the family because human creature is born in such a way that as soon as you fall out of your mother’s womb, you are not ready get up on your feet and do things like other creatures. It needs a long gestation period before a man becomes a man or a woman becomes a woman. There is a long period, where the incubation of family is most important and vital. There’s no question about that. But you’re supposed to grow beyond that identity, but a whole lot of people just never grow beyond that identity, for which they suffer and sometimes if they’re born in certain places, they make the entire nation suffer (Laughter). You are supposed to grow out of that. As a child, it’s most vital that you are identified with the family. But as an adult, you’re supposed to grow beyond your biology because biology is the most basic identity. One has to grow beyond that. So having said that, is it necessary that every father and every son has to have some kind of angst? It is not about father and son, it is just two men being accommodated in the same home. (Laughs) When you were eight, ten, your father was godlike. So this problem started after you became fifteen, sixteen, when you want to be a man and there’s not enough space. This big man is occupying too much space (Laughter) and that man thinks, “This is my space and who is this” (Laughter)? They can’t recognize each other as father and son because now there are there is no father and son, there are two men in the same house and there’s not enough space. This happens not in just human families. Every creature, whether it’s an elephant, or a buffalo, or whatever, in every creature’s life, this happens that there’ll be some friction and either the younger one goes out or the older one goes out. This happens everywhere because this is not a problem between father and son. This is two men trying to share the same space and the same woman called mother to one and wife to the other (Laughs) (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Two men! Well, that certainly breaks a strong myth that this country has operated with because the problem was always meant to be two women (Laughs) in the same house and you just changed it on its head, which I believe is true, because I believe the problem lies in the fact that two men can’t be accommodated. Sadhguru: No, it also happens between women in a different way. But women have a way of covering their frictions in certain way. They do it in a certain way, in a feminine way. Men will do it in more (Gestures) (Both laugh) head to… head on. Head-butting is the man’s way. Woman’s way is different, she will do it differently, but the friction happens. Interviewer (Karan Johar): And I feel it’s always like the mother energy of the house that sometimes has to bear the brunt of this tussle in a family. It’s also the other thing that An offshoot of that thought is that I believe very strongly that the people you love the most, you kind of tend to dump all your anxieties, your angers, your fears, your insecurities, all onto that one source that gives you the maximum love and the one that you love the most. Why is it that we as a human race tend to do that, tend to lumber all our negative emotions on our most positive light source? Sadhguru: No, no, because if you try to dump it on someone on the street, they’ll smash you up (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): So Sadhguru: You are choosing a… a safe place. Interviewer (Karan Johar): But is that always fair? Sadhguru: First of all, it’s not fair for you to carry anxieties and angsts and angers and problems within you because See, if I try to torture you, you have some defense against me. Either you will fight me, or you will run away, or you’ll do something. You have some kind of defense. But if you start torturing yourself, this (Referring to oneself) is the most helpless creature. No Most defenseless. I’m telling you, even an unborn child, if you poke like this (Gestures), he responds. He defends himself in his own little way, okay? But this one (Referring to oneself) is completely defenseless. When you start poking yourself, this (Referring to oneself) is a completely defenseless life. So the worst kind of torture, the lowest level of mind is one who tortures himself. But they always think they are the highest level of people. “I suffer for everybody” (Karan Johar laughs). You bloody suffer anyway (Laughter). If there is everybody, you will dump it on them, otherwise you’ll simply suffer (Laughs). People come to me and say, “Sadhguru , I can’t bear with my… you know, my mother-in-law, she is impossible (Karan Johar laughs). My husband, after all, her son. My wife, oh (Karan Johar laughs), she is terror for me. My boss, he is not even human” (Few laugh). Like this, it goes on. I tell them, “You come, don’t worry. I’ll give you a nice place to stay, I’ll give you good food. Nothing to do. For your life, I’ll take care of you. Only thing is, I will make some random checks on you. When I check, you must be joyful. If you’re miserable, I don’t believe in feeding misery” (Laughter). So, you leave them in one place for twenty-four hours, you will see how they will mess themselves up. So when you’re alone, if you’re miserable, you are obviously in bad company (Laughter). Now you are thinking, “Because of this person, I am suffering, because of that person, I am suffering.” Just stay alone by yourself, without any entertainment, without texting, without television, without reading, simply sit in one place joyfully, let me see. Most people can’t stay there for five minutes, believe me. They are not on Facebook, they are not on Twitter, they’re not this thing because they have something to say or because they have fallen in love with the world – no. If they stay alone, they’ll go crazy. That’s a fact. Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is… I mean, sorry to break that train of thought, but what is the solution to that kind of feeling of just not enjoying your own space? Sadhguru: Because we have not looked at how human mechanism works. It is like you have a super sophisticated machine This (Referring to oneself) the super-super computer out of This (Referring to oneself) is the machine, which dripped super-computers, isn’t it? I am asking, have you read the user’s manual (Karan Johar laughs)? That’s all it is. The entire yogic system is just this. This is not a philosophy, this is not an ideology, this is not a religion, this is not a teaching, this is just the user’s manual. How to How your body should sit, how it must breathe, how the mind should be, how the emotions should be, how the energy should be, what are the things you can do with it, how should you keep it so that this (Referring to oneself) will function at its highest possible level? See, the cellphone companies have been doing some research a few years ago and they found only seven percent or only three percent of the people no, ninety-seven percent of the people are using only seven percent of the cellphone’s capability. We are not even talking about today’s smartphones, we’re talking about the dumb phones. So ninety-seven percent of the people are using only seven percent of a small gadget. If that is the fact, how much do you believe are people making use of this tremendous gadget (Referring to oneself)? Just on the surface because they are never bothered to read the user’s manual. If you tell them this, they say, “Sadhguru, can you give us the user’s manual?” It’s written into you. You have to spend some time with this (Referring to oneself) (Karan Johar laughs). This was written by the source of creation, not by me or you, isn’t it? You must learn to read. The problem is illiteracy. See, suppose you are… you do not… you have not learnt the alphabet. Well, you have learnt English alphabet. Let’s say I’ll give you a Tamil book. You look at it, does it make any sense to you? You don’t know the alphabet, it doesn’t make a… doesn’t mean a thing to you because you do not know the alphabet. Now, this is the problem, that in today’s society, in modern education, we have not even brought fundamental literacy towards how to read this book (Referring to oneself). Because we’ve never read this (Referring to oneself), by accident we are managing it. If you manage by accident, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t work. One moment you are happy, next moment you are miserable. One moment you are peaceful, another moments you are in turmoil. I was (Laughs) – you know, I’ll cut the long story short – I was in Tel Aviv and somebody came and greeted me, “Shalom.” I said, “What does that mean?” He said, “This is the highest way of greeting.” I said, “That’s your opinion but what does it mean?” He said, “No, no, no, this is really the highest way of greeting.” I said, “All right but what does the word mean?” He said, “It means peace.” Then I say, “Why is peace the highest way of greeting unless you are born in Middle East” (Laughter)? In South India, you come up to me in the morning and say, “Peace!” I will ask, “What’s wrong with you” (Laughter)? I am saying if you deprive yourself of something for a long time, suddenly it becomes godlike. If you have not eaten for ten days, even if god appeared, what’s the prayer (Karan Johar laughs)? Food, of course. So, once you deprive yourself of fundamental things I am saying fundamental things because to be peaceful and joyful is not the ultimate goal of life. If you want to enjoy your meal, you must be peaceful and joyful. If you want to enjoy your friend, you must be peaceful and joyful. If you want to enjoy your walk on the street, you must be peaceful and joyful. If you want to enjoy simple things that you do in your life, you must be at least peaceful and joyful, if not ecstatic. So it is a most fundamental requirement. This is not happening. People are saying this is the ultimate goal of life. Even so-called spiritual leaders are saying, “Peace is the ultimate goal of life.” Such people will only rest in peace (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): In what I believe surrounds us all is urban angst – I think that seems to be terminology that comes out of mental health solutions, et cetera. And that seems to be rampant in many parts of the world now, including now slowly penetrating even in India, when people deal with mental health issues like depression and anxiety. And those…. seek certain chemical imbalance issues that are told to them about Sadhguru: Hey, they’re making you look very pretty on the screen. How do they do that? They’re not doing it to me (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): They are making my what? My (Laughs)? Sadhguru: Look at yourself there. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Am I looking pretty on screen? Sadhguru: Yeah, yeah. See (Laughter) Interviewer (Karan Johar): Okay (Laughter/Applause)! Sadhguru: They’re not doing that to me (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): You are actually looking stunning to me, Sir (Laughs). Sadhguru: Stunning is another word for shocking (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, I was trying to find another adjective to counter that (Laughter). But back to me and my mental health issue (Laughter), I really want to know, it’s such an order of the day today, everyone seems to kind… It’s almost And I hate to say this with any and I don’t say this with any kind of disrespect to people’s personal circumstance, but I almost feel like today it’s talked about like it’s almost a fashionable issue, where I think it’s a very serious issue, when people talk about mental health issues like depression and anxiety and seek counseling to sort those issues out. And then the diagnosis at times is chemical imbalance and medication is given. What And then your Well, I know you hate the word philosophy, but all your teachings are definitely about finding yourself and seeking that pleasantness from within. But to those who are not strong enough to achieve that and seek this assistance, what is your take on that? Sadhguru: Let me correct one more thing in the question. This is This is not a teaching, this is just a technology. I am just giving people simple methods with which they can work. If people are coming for a teaching, they’re frustrated with me because every time they come, they leave more confused than ever before (Few laugh). If they look If they are more confused, in a way my job is done because (Karan Johar laughs) my entire work is to get them out of silly conclusions (Karan Johar laughs) that they have made about life. And confusion means you are still looking. You have an active intelligence. Conclusions means What is the conclusion of your life? Hello? What is the conclusion of your life? You don’t know? Let me reveal the suspense to you. Though as a filmmaker he won’t tell you till the end (Laughter), I will reveal it to you Interviewer (Karan Johar): Sometimes we don’t even know what happens after that so (Laughter). Many of us are confused souls when we make movies. Sadhguru: So, the conclusion of your life is you’ll be dead (Laughter). You think something else is going to happen to you (Laughter/Applause)? You’ll be just dead, that’s all is the conclusion. So every time you make a conclusion, in some way you die. You need to understand this. You kill something of yourself every time you make a conclusion. This is you in a state of committing suicide in installments. You may call this religion, you may call this philosophy, you may call this being socially whatever. But fundamentally you’re committing suicide in installments. This is why when you look at a child and yourself, you are less alive than a child. As you grow up, should you become more alive or less alive? Unfortunately, most adults are less alive than children, isn’t it? You must be more alive but unfortunately you’re less alive. Maybe your physical agility will go down with age but your aliveness need not go down. Aliveness is going down because you’re continuously making conclusions and conclusions and conclusions. As you conclude, you become less and less alive. You know that there is that famous parable, which is all over the place, about Adam and Eve. It seems god told them it’s a dumb couple. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Kind of (Sadhguru laughs). Look at what we had to suffer as a result of them (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: No, no, not because of that, because they didn’t know what to do with each other (Laughter). So, god told them, “You eat whatever you want, but don’t eat from this particular tree.” You know what tree that was? Participant: Apple. Sadhguru: No, apple means in old English just a fruit. Participant: Knowledge. Sadhguru: What… Knowledge. Your parents tell you, you must eat the fruit of knowledge. Your teachers insist that you must eat the fruit of knowledge. Everybody in the society always trying to shove knowledge down your throat. But in… it seems god told you not to eat the fruit of knowledge and by eating that, that Adam and Eve fell. It is not about that Adam and that Eve, it’s about every Adam and every Eve. The moment you eat the fruit of knowledge, you fall because your idea of a knowledge is the conclusions that you make about everything in the universe (Applause). So this mental illness which is becoming pandemic They are telling me – I don’t know how far these statistics are right – they are telling me over forty people, particularly women in America, over forty years of age, nearly fifty-two percent of them are on some kind of antidepressants. Fifty-two percent is not a joke. Fifty-two percent is not a joke (Laughs). It means entire humanity is becoming sick. We must look at it, why? Fundamentally, because you are banking on a few things for a long time for your mental stability and emotional stability. All these things are taken away. One thing is, as you mentioned the crime that we call as family, it gave us the support. No matter what happened, there was somebody always for you. Others are with you when you do the right things. If you do the wrong thing, they’ll distance themselves. There was one bunch of people, who was like a… for the circus that you do, they were the net. Whichever way you fall, there’s somebody to hold you for some moments. But that net is gone. Now when you fall, you fall. Because of that, people are cracking up. So if you want to remove See, in this culture, there was a time in the tradition, where thirty percent of India’s population were monks. That means consciously they went beyond family. Consciously they chose to live without family, to live without support, to live without a home. Homelessness not out of deprivation but by choice. Nobody ever had a depression (Laughs) because they transcended the need for the net. You learnt your trapeze bar act really well, now you can do it without the net. You are not good at it, you better have a net, isn’t it (Laughs)? Otherwise your head will crack. Right now, that’s all that’s happening. The traditional support system that we had, we’re taking it off. When we talked about religion, with all due respect, we must acknowledge this. Today people are trying to go to psychiatrists. India doesn’t have enough psychiatrists for one-billion people, believe me. No country has. And above all, they’re very inefficient because they can take only one client at a time and they need lot of furniture like this (Few laugh). It’s very inefficient. Religion handled human psychological balance effortlessly. “God is with you, don’t worry.” It settled a whole lot of people. Do not underestimate the value of that. It is very inexpensive mass psychiatry, where people (Karan Johar laughs) No people No, no, I’m not This is not a joke. When you are mentally ill, it’s not a joke. It’s a most painful thing. If you get physical ailments, you will get everybody’s compassion. When you get mental ailment, you’ll get laughter, you know, unfortunately. Because you don’t know when somebody is sick and when somebody is being stupid. Tch, you can’t make out. This is the biggest problem for those families, who have somebody in the family, who is mentally disturbed. You don’t know when they are making it up, when they are really suffering. You can’t make out. There is no perfect way. There is no science anywhere to tell you exactly when because human beings can make up every kind of thing. You are an actor, you know. I don’t know, you… you are actor or…? Interviewer (Karan Johar): I do most things, yeah. Sadhguru: Okay (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): We act even in our day-to-day existence, all of us do (Laughs). Sadhguru: No, that is fine, but are you actor? Just director? Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, no. I tried, I failed (Laughter). Sadhguru: Okay. So, all right, you are a bad actor (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah. But I am an actor nonetheless. Sadhguru: But at least you make other people act? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes. Sadhguru: So, you know, in a cinema or drama, you can act something and make it really real to a point, where these 10000 people will sit and experience like it’s real. So, when a mentally ill person is in your home, you don’t know whether he’s acting it up or it’s real. Sometimes it’s real, sometimes he’s playing with it. You can’t make out. You don’t know when to be compassionate, when to be hard on him. This is the biggest problem for people, who have mentally ill people in… within their homes. This is the huge problem because there is no perfect way of making a judgment. And it is not joke. See, human sanity is a very fragile thing. The line between sanity and insanity is so thin. If you push it every day, you will cross it. See, when you get angry, what do you say, what’s the expression? “I am mad with you” or “I am mad right now.” So you are enjoying that little bit of madness. You crossed the line and it felt like it’s some kind of a freedom and power. But one day when you cannot cross back, that is when suffering begins. And suffering means, it’s not like physical pain, it’s immense suffering. I have been around people who have been mentally ill, trying to help them. It is Nobody should have it. But unfortunately, it’s becoming an epidemic in the world, that mental illnesses are growing like never before because all the supports they had we are pulling it out without replacing it. If people become so conscious and so capable within themselves, you pull all the supports, everything will be fine. But without giving that competence, you just pull the supports, people will crack. In the Western societies, it’s happening large scale. We are not going to be far behind. Especially the urban societies in India will move in this direction because once again in many ways, urban India is more West than West. There are more people in denims here than in America (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, no, thank you, thank you for that because I know it is definitely a crisis that plagues us and some, as I said, seek help. Some who are helped, I am happy for them and I am sure grateful for resources that are available. And those that find pleasantness within themselves, I think that truly is a glorious solution to their issues Sadhguru: See, when we say pleasantness, human pleasantness can be looked at in many different ways. One simple way of looking at it – because medical science is looking at it that way, I don’t see it that way, but that’s a consequence for me – is every human experience has a chemical basis to it. What you call as peace, joy, love, turmoil, tranquility, agony, ecstasy, everything has a chemical balance… chemical basis to it. Even health and ill health has a chemical basis to it. Today entire pharmacology is just about trying to manage your health by using chemicals. It’s a… Today or… a doctor’s or a physician’s job is, it’s an orchestra of chemistry that he’s trying to manage. Put this pill, something more happened, put that pill, then something less happened, then do this, do that – trying to manage the orchestra of chemistry because this (Referring to oneself) is the most complex chemical factory on the planet. This (Referring to oneself) is a very complex chemical factory. Managing it from outside is (Laughs) very, very difficult. But you could manage it from inside, but you must have access to your insides If your innards are not available to you, then how do you manage it from inside? You only try to manage it from outside. All, even mental illness is a largely being managed by chemical input. But all the chemicals that you can think of on this planet are in some way already present in this (Referring to oneself). Whether you are seeking medically prescribed drugs or you’re going for the backstreet drugs, whatever you are going, essentially you are trying to bring pleasantness within yourself because health means one level of pleasantness. If… If body becomes pleasant, we call this health. If it becomes very pleasant, we call this pleasure. If your mind becomes pleasant, we call this peace. If it becomes very pleasant, we call this joy. If your emotions become pleasant, you call this love. If it becomes very pleasant, we call it compassion. If your very energies become pleasant, we call this bliss. If it becomes very pleasant, we call it ecstasy. If your surroundings become pleasant, we call this success (Applause). So, we are trying to manage pleasantness by putting chemicals. To what extent means – these statistics are out now – in United States, they are saying seventy percent of the population is on some kind of prescription medication. The (Laughs) most affluent country, where there is enormous choice of nourishment and lifestyles, here seventy percent are on prescription medication. So you are trying to manage your sanity and your health by putting chemicals from outside. But there is no doubt in anybody’s mind today that this (Referring to oneself) is the greatest chemical factory , but right now ill-managed. Essentially, you are a lousy CEO (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): That is true. What has always, Sadhguru, has also left me in wonderment at times about the usage of two words, which I am going to say it to you right now. Terminology sometimes has a tendency of making you even receive an emotion from within. Two words being ego and self-respect. Now these are two pillars of (Sadhguru laughs) what we believe is self-confidence, which is unfounded, I believe. Ego Sadhguru: Hey, who put a cow next to me (Laughter)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Sorry? Sadhguru: Who put a cow next to me? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Put a (Laughs) Well, topical at least (Both laugh). It’s part of the décor or something. Sadhguru: Because everywhere I go, people have been asking me questions about Gau Rakshak, Gau Rakshak (Referring to members of the Bhartiya Gau Raksha Dal, a Hindu nationalist right-wing federation of cattle protection movements in India). Now they put a cow next to me (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, I was planning not to go down that path but now (Sadhguru laughs) then since you brought it up (Laughs) No, no, not going there. As I was saying about ego and self-respect, like we always say, like my belief has always been that maintain your self-respect, keep that, your ego can be flexible because it should be convenient (Sadhguru laughs) because I believe like your ego should be a function of your convenience (Laughs). How true is that or maybe both are unfounded? Sadhguru: This ego should be a function of your convenience is perfect, but nobody knows where ego is within themselves. Do you know? Interviewer (Karan Johar): No. Sadhguru: Nobody knows. Interviewer (Karan Johar): It arises at will, I think. Sadhguru: No, no, no. Ego is a fall guy. When you do the good things, it’s of course it’s you who did it. When you do nasty things “Oh, it was my ego.” He is a fall guy. He comes up whenever something goes wrong (Karan Johar laughs). Whenever you are seen in a bad light, “It was my ego, it’s not me.” So, people have created a whole lot of jargon like this, “my ego, my self, my consciousness, my super-consciousness” many things. First everybody must decide Within this body of yours, how many people are residing, you must tell me (Laughter/Applause). If there is anything more than one, it means you… either you are schizophrenic or you are possessed (Laughter). You need either a psychiatrist or an exorcist (Laughter). So you are an individual. An individual means not further divisible – indivisible. This is why you are an individual. That means there is only one. This is the healthiest state to be, that you understand there is only you here, nobody else but you, if you realize this, then you will function completely differently. But you start playing this game – whenever you are in difficulty, you say, “It was my ego”, whenever something else happens, you say, “It’s myself”, another time you say, “my lower self, higher self” (Karan Johar laughs), all kinds of stuff, many identities within you. See, this is the nature of a criminal – alias, alias, alias, alias, you know? So, it’s a crime that you started. Whether you will be caught in the web of that or you will manage doing See, if you do minimal amount of crime, you may manage. Only when you really get into it, then you may get into the web. Otherwise, many people commit small-time crime and then become very respectable in the society (Both laugh). So, if you do little crime of ego business, self business, all this and then become normal, you’re okay. But if you play it too much, you will become mentally ill. Because if there is more than one in this (Referring to oneself), you will become sick. There you are an individual, you are just one. Now it’s very easy to transform this (Referring to oneself). You can’t transform a crowd of people. You can only transform individual people (Laughs). And if you take away this fall guy, one fundamental thing you have to do with yourself is to see that no matter what happens in my life, if pleasant things happen, if unpleasant things happen, whether I am joyful or miserable, I’m successful or a failure, you know it’s just you, you and you alone. Otherwise, when things happen well, “Me”, when things don’t happen well (Karan Johar laughs) Interviewer (Karan Johar): So you say we always tend to blame ourselves into various parts and then divine forces as well. Sadhguru: It’s convenient, it’s very convenient. But this self-respect – no, no, you should have no self-respect. Others (Karan Johar laughs) Respect is from another person. “I respect myself” – what is this rubbish (Laughter/Applause)? Somebody else respects you because they see some value to you, it’s nice (Karan Johar laughs). But “I respect myself” – what is this? This is (Laughs) This is… It’s gone further in the West and people say, “I love myself.” See, to respect, to love, the very word they are using is there must be two. You can love somebody, somebody can love you. You can respect somebody, somebody can respect you. But “I love myself, I respect myself”, this terminology is the terminology of the insane. But it’s becoming popular because the numbers are growing (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): By the hour (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: Hey, don’t say by the hour (Karan Johar laughs), then we will be blamed (Laughter). By the day (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): By the day, okay, we get that, we sign seal and deliver that (Both laugh). Is there a ceiling to extremity, to extreme emotion like love? When you love something, is there a time that you have to stop? Is there any such thing as stopping the extent of your extreme emotion? And I feel that about even the negative emotions. When you love someone, how do you really stop the extent of it? Sadhguru: I would say Please, I want you to listen to this carefully because you will immediately tweet, “Sadhguru said this” (Laughter). It’s a dangerous world today. If you love, love strong. If you hate, hate strong. Whatever the hell you do, live strong. It’s very important. Otherwise, you will live an insipid life (Applause), not knowing a thing about anything. In When Adiyogi gave the yogic principles, he said anything in your life, it doesn’t matter what I have been telling people, they’re not grasping it, they think… Because too much this, you know, what to say, flowery teachings have gone into people, they’re not looking at what works and what doesn’t work, they want something pretty. I am not interested in what’s pretty and not pretty. Whether it works or not is the only thing. Ultimately, what works is very fantastic (Laughs). So, even if it’s anger – not necessarily love or compassion, even if it is anger – just stay on it for twenty-four hours. Anybody, I’m saying just try this by yourself. Twenty-four hours stay intensely angry, let me see. Believe me, at the end of twenty-four hours or well before that, you will be enlightened. But you will see you are not capable of being angry because to stay intensely angry, you need enormous energy. It burns you up. Try one day, twenty-four hours stay angry. You are irritated, that you can manage for the rest of your life (Laughter). Stay angry, really super angry for twenty-four hours, let me see. You can’t manage more than three minutes, believe me. You will feel drained out because it takes enormous energy. There are yogis, who live like this. They are simply angry all the time. All the time. Not about anybody or anything, simply angry, just like that. It works wonderfully. It works much better and quicker than love. Only thing is, with that kind of practice within you, with that kind of emotion within you, you can’t live in social atmospheres. You’ll have to withdraw to a mountain cave and simply be angry about nothing. Just like that. If you want to live in social atmospheres, you need to be in a pleasant state of emotion, otherwise you will get into constant mess. So “Should I stop myself somewhere?” What you are asking is, “Should I be constipated about my love” (Laughter)? At least in love, know some sense of abandon, that there is no brakes on it. I would say on everything in your life In your car, you must pull out all the pedals, only throttle should be there. Yes. In your life, there should be only throttle because brake will happen when you die. It’s not for you to brake every day (Applause). It’s not for you to control. Your life will be curtailed somewhere, that’s nature’s business. Your business is to be full on because life… life needs your support. Death is super-efficient. Did you ever see death happening inefficiently? Hello (Laughter)? Wherever it happened it was a perfect death, isn’t it (Karan Johar laughs)? Never happened inefficiently but life happens inefficiently. Life needs constant support. Death does not need your support. Stopping something is death in a way. So to love, you’re afraid, to laugh, you’re afraid, to cry you’re afraid, to everything. Nothing is done with abandon, everything with constipation (Karan Johar laughs). Learn to do something with abandon because if you do not know at least how to scream in abandon, there is no way you will ever know how to meditate or to be spiritual, because spirituality is a state of total abandon, complete state of abandon (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): I endorse that and I will try and live by that. But what happens when a positive emotion reaches its extreme stage (Sadhguru laughs) and ventures into a dark area? Like love can also transfer itself into obsession. Sadhguru: See, you are referring to See, it’s like this. Suppose you don’t have legs and if I say, “Come, dance”, you say, “No, I cannot even walk without my crutch.” So “I cannot walk without my crutch” or “I cannot live without you” are not different. This is a very dangerous territory I am entering (Few applaud). But it is a fact. “I cannot walk without a crutch” or “I cannot live without you” is the same thing because you’re misunderstanding your dependence and a certain relationship that you hold with somebody as love. Let’s look at this thing of what is love. See, it’s a certain blossoming within you. Now, who are you in your life, who are you using as the manure? Filth. See, this flower is fragrant, not because somebody sprayed perfume to the roots. It is fragrant because somebody put filth to the roots, isn’t it? So now, you found a little flower within you of love. Who is your manure? Who is your filth? Now this is a dangerous territory for me to enter with you also (Laughter). But this is exactly what we are doing. Now the question is just this. Whatever is the most pleasant emotion within you, are you capable of bringing it on by yourself, or are you in a dilapidated condition of technology, that you are a push start machine, that somebody has to push you, otherwise you cannot be? Your joy, your love, your peace, your ecstasy must be your making, isn’t it? So now, your love will become about sharing your joy, not squeezing joy out of somebody. Right now, most people’s joy, most people’s idea of a love affair is more like a mutual benefit scheme (Karan Johar laughs), “You give me this, I’ll give you that. You can’t live without me, I can’t live without you.” They will make sure that the other person also becomes invalid and cannot live without me. Yes. This is a very… a very huge problem in the human societies. Love is not happening as a flowering, it is something that we are trying to suck out of somebody. Love is not about somebody. I want you to know this. Maybe because you’re a film personality maybe You said you are not an actor but there are many actors, who are loved by people. People are in… drooling with ecstasy simply looking at them. But the problem is they’ve never seen them. They’ve only seen that play of light and sound. They’ve never seen them but they love them. So what I am saying is, you are capable of loving somebody, that person may not exist, he may be animated. But you still love and you are experiencing all the fruits of love. I am saying, love is something that you do within yourself and blame it on somebody (Both laugh). You can do it by yourself. For a long time in this country, it’s been there. There have been Meerabais and Tukarams and others. They taught you, you don’t have… To love and to be in an extreme state of love, you don’t need anybody. You can simply do it by yourself. And not just in emotion, even physical ecstasies happened to them, simply because they are in a great love affair with someone who is not even here, all right? So, it is something that you do within yourself. Right now, you are in love with somebody here, that somebody may not even know that you love them, but you can experience this, isn’t it? You don’t need the support from the other person. This is an experience that’s happening within you. Love is within you if you wish. It is not that it’s sitting within you. There is no such thing. You are capable of variety of emotions. If you want, you can make it’s very sweet emotion. If you are in a very sweet state of emotion, people say, “Oh, he’s very loving.” You may not be loving in the real context of how they understand, but you are in a pleasant state of emotion, so naturally you do pleasant things. So people think you love them. Interviewer (Karan Johar): So make love an island, not a country. Sadhguru: No, no. Make love the universe, not an island (Applause). Because right now, when you say “I love you”, this particular person, you only, when I look at these people, I look at them like this (Gestures), this one person, ahh (Laughter)! This is an island love (Laughter). It is too discriminatory. This one face in these 10000 faces I love, rest (Gestures), depressing looking at them. This is a very island love. I know you are in an island city, but it’s time (Laughter) Interviewer (Karan Johar): To go beyond. Sadhguru: …it’s time that you understand love is a happening within you. Maybe somebody stimulated this, you are grateful for them that they ignited this within you. But love affair is yours, isn’t it? It’s an inner experience that’s happening to you. Somebody is providing the stimulus. We are grateful to them, that they are providing this, but they are not causing it. It’s been caused from within. And once you understand this, why wouldn’t you be walking on the street lovingly? Why wouldn’t you look at a tree lovingly? Why wouldn’t you look at a buffalo lovingly? Why wouldn’t you look at the cloud lovingly? Because it is not something that’ll get over. “Should I control it?” Why? Will it get over? There is no such danger. It doesn’t get over. In fact, almost everything that you experience, the more you exercise it, the more it’s available to you. Whether it’s your love, or joy, or hate, or anger, the more you exercise it, the more it’s available to you because it’s after all your making. It’s entirely your making. So when it’s your making, why don’t you enjoy it every moment of your life? Somebody is there, nobody is there, what is the problem (Karan Johar laughs)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, that brings me to… I think the I believe the mother of a virus that plagues a large part of humanity is expectation. I have a simple theory that I try to expect less because then I feel that I’ll be disappointed less (Sadhguru laughs). And I feel to curtail your expectation is possibly the toughest thing to do because we constantly expect from relationships, from the work we do, from… Sadhguru: You are just talking to the wrong guy about this expectation (Karan Johar laughs). I have the highest expectation of every human being on the planet (Applause) and I know… and I know they will disappoint me. I will die disappointed but joyfully disappointed (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Now joyful disappointment is a place, Sir, that you’ve reached (Laughs). But that is not a easy place to reach for most of us. Sadhguru: No, no, no. See, these things are not like that. To be joyful or miserable is essentially your choice. It’s a choice that you are making within yourself. Maybe it’s an unconscious choice. Anything that you do unconsciously Right now, unconsciously my hand can fly. But what I can do unconsciously, I can do the same thing definitely consciously also, isn’t it? Tch, this is the fundamental difference between being human and every other creature. We are not doing anything different from what they are doing. We are doing the same things, but we do it little more consciously. Suddenly it’s a different affair altogether. Same things – we eat, they eat, they sleep, we sleep, they reproduce, we reproduce, they die, we die. Only thing is we are doing it little more consciously, suddenly it looks like another world by itself. We think we are above them only because we can do the same silly little things little more consciously. So, if I can move my hand unconsciously, I can also move it consciously. If I can become joyful unconsciously, I can also become joyful consciously. If I am joyful because of my choice, suppose disappointments are thrown at me, I will be joyfully disappointed (Karan Johar laughs). And my expectations of people are very, very high. I have an impossible expectation, so I know I will die joyfully, blissfully disappointed because I know the nature of the world very well. I am not somebody who lives in fancy la-la land (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): So, abundant love and no curtail on expectation. Sadhguru: Oh See, love is not a quantity, it’s a quality. It is not that if you do certain amount of things, you are loving. There is no such thing. You can sit here, eyes closed, not look at anybody and still be loving because it’s essentially pleasantness of your emotion. How pleasant? I am asking, is there any need to curtail pleasantness within you? Now I am super pleasant, but if a child came, I may grab him and put him on my lap. If an adult comes, you don’t do that (Laughter). I’ll do this (Gestures namaskar), okay. Here dog came, I’ll just do this (Gestures petting). But an adult comes, another person comes, you don’t do this (Gestures petting) to them. I am saying your expression will change from person to person, from relationship to relationship, what kind of intimacy and what kind of closeness you have with people. But does it mean to say that you should not this (Gestures) with as much love as you hug somebody or kiss somebody? Should you not? Should you not do namaskaram with as much love as you hugged your child? Why not, I am asking? Because there is no See, this… I’m… I’m trying to demolish the word abundance because when you say abundance, there is also scarcity. There is no such thing. It is neither abundant nor scarce. If you are willing, it’s on, if you are not willing, it’s off, that’s all (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): As simple as that (Applause). Fundamentally, there is always a need, a need for so many things. Even when… in your process, your professional process or where you garner wealth or income and you keep going, there is a need to constantly get more than what you have. There is no satisfaction and a place to stop. Is there an end to need? Sadhguru: No, no, no. There should not be an end. It is just that Now that you are asking this question, in some way you have realized that at every point of your life, you thought, “This is it. If this one thing happens, I am fulfilled”, but the very next day you realize that this is not it, there is one more thing and one more thing, and you know that after ten years still the same state will continue. So this means you are ready for yoga (Laughter/Applause). This means you have understood that your longing is not for more, your longing is for all. Your longing to expand is not just for more, it is for all. Or in other words, your longing is in some way for infinite expansion. If you handle your infinite expansion unconsciously and if it finds a very basic physical expression, we call this sexuality. What you are trying to do is, something that is not you, with physical contact you are trying to make it a part of yourself. You know it doesn’t work. If you try emotionally, we call this love. Emotionally you are trying to include something which is not you as a part of yourself, this is your love affair. If you do it mentally, this gets labeled as greed, ambition, conquest or simply shopping (Both laugh). If you do it consciously, then we call this yoga. Yoga means union. You’re longing to expand infinitely but because of little constipation in the head, you are going in installments. Can you go in installments and become infinite, I am asking? Is it possible? Can you count one, two, three, four and one day say infinity? No, you will become endless counting. So your longing is not for this much or that much. Your longing is for everything. If you want everything, you must understand that you cannot do that physically. It can only happen in a dimension beyond physical because physicality exists only because of defined boundaries. But there is something within you, which doesn’t like this boundary, which wants to stretch the boundary, stretch the boundary, stretch the boundary. You are looking for boundlessness, but you are not courageous enough or conscious enough to admit this. You want to go in installments. No. What you are looking is for boundlessness. If you want boundlessness, it can never ever happen through physical means. So once it doesn’t happen through physical means, now you use the most corrupted word called spiritual. Spiritual does not mean looking up or looking down, going here, going there. It simply means your experience of life transcended the limitations of being just physical. Because everything that’s physical about you is an acquired quantity, isn’t it? This is just a piece of this planet. What is up here is just a heap of impressions that you have gathered. So what you have acquired can be yours, can never be you. So this longing to have more money, more property, more pleasure, more something is not about those things. You are trying to find that dimension beyond physical nature. But because of constipation, it’s not happening (Laughs) (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): I’m going to take the liberty, Sadhguru, to do what I normally do on my television show, which is a rapid fire round. Sadhguru: Mhmm (Indicating agreement) (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): The… Normally the end of this round Sadhguru: (Overlapping conversation) See, I’ve… When I was young, I watched a lot of, you know, Wild West movies (Karan Johar laughs). When you fire, I also fire, all right (Laughter/Applause)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, but I promise you, this is not that kind of you are not in my line of fire (Sadhguru laughs) at all. I will not take the liberty of being that person (Laughs). These are just quick questions, which when I ask for one word, you have to stick to that because sometimes you have a tendency of not exactly answering the question asked (Laughter). But you give such a profound and prolific retort back that it makes you very satiated. But in this case, my only request is that if it’s one word, then it’s just one word (Laughs). Sadhguru: Okay. Interviewer (Karan Johar): And the end of this normally, you get a hamper (Laughter). But in the absence of a hamper here, you already have Sadhguru: A cow (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): …something right… Yes. So (Laughs)… And… Or this beautiful bouquet that is right next to you. But so there is no hamper but you do will get my utmost gratitude (Both laugh). Thank you. Interviewer (Karan Johar): All right, very simply, what is the one thing that is essential to living a balanced life? Sadhguru: Sense (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is the one thing we must absolutely do away with in order to lead a balanced life? Sadhguru: Senselessness (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): All right, I thought that was coming. First thing that comes to your mind when I say the following – the first thing. Organized religion. Sadhguru: Madness. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Marriage. Sadhguru: Cohabitation (Karan Johar laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Competition. Sadhguru: Stupid. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Money. Sadhguru: Useful. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Love. Sadhguru: Can I say a sentence (Laughter/Applause)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes. I will allow that (Laughs). Sadhguru: Most beautiful but unfortunately crippling for most people (Applause). If I can little elaborate that See, if something unpleasant cripples you, something nasty cripples you, tch, it’s acceptable. When something beautiful cripples you, it’s a true disaster (Laughs) (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): If you could ask one person alive or dead, one question, who would you ask and what would that be (Sadhguru laughs)? Sadhguru: I really sorted out all my questions because I did not spend time educating myself or doing anything, I spent my entire life sorting out every damn question I had. I kind of run out of questions (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): And you certainly have not run out of any answers (Laughter) and you never will. Best advice you have ever received? Sadhguru: Nothing. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Never? Sadhguru: No. I never sought, nor did I receive. I made myself in such a way, I’m incapable either of seeking advice or giving advice (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): In an imaginary, completely hypothetical situation, if you had a day off with no commitments, no responsibilities, what would you spend the day doing? Sadhguru: Oh! There’re lot of things, this can’t be one word (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, it’s not one word. Sadhguru: See, I have an indiscriminate sense of passion towards everything. There were lots and lots of things I did at one time but these days, time is not allowing me to do that. So generally if I have little time, all I do is play golf because that’s safe and within the city and I can get back in time for something else to be done. But if an entire day is left to me – which they have not done for a long time (Laughs), they’ve not left it to me – if that happens, I will close my eyes and sit because that is my… the best… the best… I am at my best when I truly have nothing to do (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is one thing you’d like people to remember about you at the end of your life? Sadhguru: They must live so wonderfully that they don’t even remember me (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): If you found a way to travel through time, where would you go? Sadhguru: I’m kind of done with all those things (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): You’re universe visited already, you have visas for every part (Laughs) of this ecosystem. Sadhguru: If we can do some slow fire… Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah. Sadhguru: …because that’s a question with many ramifications. This… For example, traveling in the world, we’ve jetted around and now we want to travel to the Mars, we want to travel to another place. And now that’s not enough, we want to travel into the past and future. All this longing is again exploratory in nature. Whether you go on vacation to Maldives or you want to go to Mars, it is fundamentally exploratory. Maybe you’re also thinking of relaxation and pleasure and whatever, but essentially it’s exploratory, otherwise why can’t you do it here? It’s something that you want to do, you want to touch another place. This longing is there in the human being only as long as the life that you are remains in a seed form, that is, it did not sprout and blossom. This happened. When Adiyogi was expounding the science of yoga and talking about the nature of the cosmos, how it’s related to your individual self and what you can do with it, then the seven sages who were with him, they asked, “What is the nature of this cosmos? How big is it? Where does it begin, where does it end?” So he laughed and said, “Your entire cosmos, I can pack it into a mustard seed.” Because your ideas of time and space are essentially because you’re living within the framework of your intellect. If you cross that dimension, then there is no such thing as time and space. Everything is here and now. So, traveling through time, space – no, it means nothing to me because… It’s difficult to express, difficult to articulate. If I sound little I have a reputation of being very logical but if I sound illogical or silly to you, you can blame it on my jetlag. I’ve just come from United States after six weeks, so you can say, “Maybe he was jetlagged, that’s why Sadhguru’s saying something silly.” But I’m fine. I’m saying this because you can’t fit the universe into your silly little logic. Today’s human being is too overly enamored with their own logic, that they’re missing the entire life. The gamut of phenomena that’s happening in the existence is missed because the only way you can accept anything is it has to fit into the square hole of your logic. Anything that doesn’t fit into your logic, you will reject. In this, you’ve rejected the entire cosmos. In this, you’ve rejected the magic of life. You have become a slave of logic and completely missing the magic of life. So, this time, space, all this stuff is because intellectually you’re trying to dissect the universe and try to understand this, this, this. Tell me, if you sit here, suppose you’re very joyful, do you see, you will not know how the day passed off? And if you’re depressed, do you see the day won’t pass? So time is a consequence of the miserable nature of human existence. If you were truly blissed out and ecstatic, you wouldn’t know what is a day, what is a year, what is a lifetime. You wouldn’t know. There’ve been times, I sat down, I didn’t realize, I thought it’s five minutes but people gathered around and started molesting my feet (Laughter). No, because they… in their understanding I sat there for many days or whatever. This idea of time and space is a very convoluted idea, simply because people are stuck in the framework of their logic. My work, my fundamental work is to take people beyond the framework of logic into the true magic of existence, our own existence. But it takes a lot of time. Still my reputation is of being very logically correct because I’m still trying to woo them, tch (Both laugh). Still wooing them, you know (Laughs)? For the real thing to happen, they will take a long time unfortunately because they have become such slaves of their logic. Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is the first thing you notice when you meet a person? Sadhguru: Just everything. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Everything? Sadhguru: Everything. Past, present and future (Karan Johar laughs) (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Is it more important to do what you love or love what you’re doing? Sadhguru: One word or more (Laughter)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): The choice is entirely yours. Sadhguru: See, if you are an intelligent person, you will try to do what you love most. But if you’re a genius, you will do just what is needed (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): If you could be invisible for a day, what would you do (Laughter)? Sadhguru: You wouldn’t know (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): With due respect, what is your biggest weakness? Sadhguru: Hmm? Biggest (Laughter)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is your biggest weakness? Sadhguru: See, what normally people treat as weakness in their lives… Okay, let me give a normal answer, why… why am I going into all this? Already you said I’m… what? What is the word? Sashayed (satiated?), hmm (Both laugh)? My biggest weakness is I love danger. Without danger, I cannot live. I need to do something, which… which keeps me on the edge of being mortal, being alive and dead. I want to walk that line all the time. Every day I’m stepping on it one way or the other (Few applaud). Is it a weakness? I don’t think so, but people think. “Sadhguru, you shouldn’t risk your life like this.” But if there’s no risk, I’m feel… I feel I’m not being… Because most of the time in my life, for whatever I’m doing, I don’t feel tested. It’s only in moments of danger that I feel little tested. So my weakness is, I like to be stretched, you know? For all the time when I was riding across India and later on I started driving, my only wish was that… to find a machine, which will test my skills. Always found the damn things broke down if I took it to my limits. These days recently, I’m beginning to get to do a few machines, which are testing me, whether I can push it all the way or not (Both laugh). Maybe that’s because of my age (Karan Johar laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): No. Sadhguru: If I had met them much younger, I think I would have Interviewer (Karan Johar): You would have managed to work around them (Sadhguru laughs). One thing the world doesn’t know about you? Sadhguru: They don’t know a thing about me (Laughter/Applause). That’s a fact (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): And the one thing you wish you could change about yourself? Sadhguru: Oh, I never looked at that (Few laugh). I could speak Hindi (Laughter/Applause). No, I’m sorry, Marathi (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): The one thing you wish you could change about the world? Sadhguru: Tch, oh, a lot of things. Interviewer (Karan Johar): One. Sadhguru: Human beings (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Desperately in need of (Sadhguru laughs). Sir, what would you consider to be your greatest achievement? Sadhguru: I don’t think there’s any because I always fall woefully short of my own expectation of what I could do (Applause). So, I never feel anything is an achievement (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Is there a song you love and can listen to all the time? Sadhguru: Oh (Laughs)! I somehow… (Someone starts singing Tamil song Alai Alai) (Laughter) No (Laughs). Probably because this came to me at a certain time when I was in my early teens maybe, so this one song kind of comes back to me more often than anything else. It’s not that I even seek it but somehow, one way or the other, this song keeps coming back to me, is “How many times” (Referring to Blowing in the Wind by Bob Dylan) (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Okay, okay. I know you haven’t seen any of my films but do you have a favorite film? Sadhguru: Oh! I’ve seen many good movies. At one time, I saw a lot of them. I’ve not seen much of Indian cinema but I saw a lot of, you know, English cinema. But one movie that I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed at that time because on that day the way things happened, many life situations fell together and everything, was Roman Holiday. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Oh (Applause)! Well, I have to say that that’s the first film I’ve ever seen in my life, my mother took me to the cinema (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: Here we are! Interviewer (Karan Johar): It is true, Roman Holiday is the first film I ever saw, it was my introduction to the big screen (Sadhguru laughs). I’m glad I have something in common with you (Laughter). Sadhguru: That image of Audrey and Gregory Peck is… somehow just stayed with me (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Wonderful. Sadhguru: It was probably my age (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah, it must have been. Something you enjoy doing and wish you had more time for? Sadhguru: I wish I had more time because I made myself like this, that there is nothing that I enjoy or do not enjoy. I make sure I enjoy everything that I do, including simply sitting quietly, or talking to somebody, or doing whatever. Because my activity is not limited to one area, so many things. If you did not enjoy everything that you do and do not do, you will go insane trying to manage so many things. But I’ll not go insane because I enjoy being alive. Activity is… Anything is okay. Everything I do, I enjoy (Both laugh). Small things, big things, every kind of thing. Most profound things and silly things, I enjoy thoroughly (Both laugh) (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): As should us all. Lastly, in a biopic made on you, who would play you (Laughter)? Sadhguru: But who would make a biopic, first of all (Laughter)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, there would be lots of interested people. Sadhguru: Maybe you should animate (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): I don’t think you would want that (Both laugh). Well, that is the end of the rapid fire and you totally deserve the hamper that doesn’t exist on this platform (Laughter). But it’s a virtual hamper that I’ve given to you with my (Both laugh) love, gratitude and deepest amount of respect. Thank you (Both laugh) (Applause). Sadhguru: Thank you. Interviewer (Karan Johar): I think before we open questions to the house, it’s integral for me to share that the last week that I spent reading about you and hearing everything that you had to say – so many people question you, including Juhi (Referring to Juhi Chawla), who’s in the house – it’s been exhilarating, it’s been enlightening and more than anything else, I think it gave me a certain sense of understanding about where I am. Being at a crossroad of my life emotionally and also now as a newfound parent, I read some of what you had to say about even parenting. To me, it was extremely enlightening to read that… that not to nurture the dos and don’ts so strongly on your child. We all have theories of parenting but I think just what I imbibe from what you had to say is that if I am strong-willed and I exude a certain amount of pleasantness and I give out the right amount of energies, my child and my children will emulate that, imbibe that and I don’t have to constantly force-feed that knowledge on them, they will imbibe it from my energy source in any case. That is what I drew with, am I right? Sadhguru: No (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Okay. Sadhguru: See, one level right. But it’s not question of energy and Don’t… Don’t make simple aspects of life mystical because my entire life is dedicated to make mystical very approachable. But generally in the society, people are trying to make simple aspects of life mystical. Rearing a child is not a mystical dimension of life. It’s Millions of people have done it. For thousands of generations, people have done it. We are not reinventing anything here. It’s just a simple biological process. Every creature does it. A bird is teaching its offspring to, you know, find a worm and a worm is teaching its offspring to escape the bird. All kinds of things are happening in their own way. Similarly human beings are doing it, but as we get more educated, we become more fussy about it. There was a time that a whole lot of parents had eight-ten children. They did not even know their names. Number one, number two, they called them (Laughter), but they grew up somehow (Laughs). They just provided the basic ecosystem and they just grew up. So let’s not make it too whatever because you can easily because today is a time of just one child or two children and we’ve become totally, overly emotional about what is ours and we lose perspective of what is the reality. A child will grow up anyway. If they’re nourished, they will grow up. Now what should they grow up as? Should they grow up confused, should they grow up strong, should they grow up stable, should they become sage-like, should they become something else? That’s a question. What they should become in the world is a social issue. That will be decided in the times in which they grow up and the exposure that they have. Now you become a filmmaker not because you’re intrinsically a filmmaker. Because you are in Mumbai, you come from that kind of family and the atmosphere around you is like that, naturally you choose that. Suppose you were somewhere else, let’s say 1000 years ago you were somewhere else, would you be thinking of filmmaking? No, you would be thinking of something else. So what we do in our lives is just a circumstantial thing. Let’s not read too much into it. The question is, when we have children, how complete and joyful and wonderful are they? Because every life is aspiring not to do this or that, every life is aspiring only to become a full-fledged life, that’s all. Whether it’s a worm, insect, or plant, or tree, they’re only aspiring to become a full-fledged life. There is no other aspiration in life, including ourselves. Only problem with the human being is, we know what is a full-fledged worm, we know what is a full-fledged mango tree, but we don’t know what is a full-fledged human being. This is the only problem. My work is just this, to make people perceive, not understand – you must understand the difference or the distinction between perceiving, experiencing and understanding – not understand, but perceive and experience what it means to be a full-fledged life human being. And that’s all that must happen to your children and every other children every other child on the planet. What should happen? They must become full-fledged life, that’s all. For this, they need an ecosystem and nourishment, not teaching from another time. Because you belong to an another time, you are past. You may not like it. I am not saying as a director, you are past. I am saying (Laughs), in terms of time, compared to your children, you are past, okay? So one important thing that we need to do when we have children is, no to help them not to get overly identified with us. This is to make an investment – heavy investment child means – but not expect any return. Tch, tch, tch, this is difficult for a stock market world. How to make an investment without return? But this is what bringing up a child means. You want to make a heavy investment, no return expected. This is all. If you want to because I have… You know, in raising my girl – I won’t go into the lengthy affair – but I made sure nobody teaches her anything nor did I teach her anything. No one-two-three, no A-B-C, no “Mary had a little lamb” because I don’t care whether Mary had a lamb or not (Laughter), you know. People said, “Sadhguru, the way you are bringing up this girl, she won’t know how many fingers she has.” I said, “I don’t care whether she knows how many fingers she has as long as she knows how to use her fingers” (Laughs) (Applause). Why should she know this is ten? She thinks this is hundred. Actually this used to happen. When she was just because I just exposed her to nature. As much as possible, I expose If there is nothing else, at least I took her up on the terrace and showed her the stars, which you can’t do in Mumbai. You will show other kinds of stars in Mumbai (Laughter). So, she would look up at the sky and say – she would call be by name, first name and say – “Jaggi, ten!” Ten stars. Tch, because in her mind, the biggest number is ten, somewhere she heard ten (Both laugh). So she didn’t say million, she said ten. I said, “Yes, ten.” What is the problem? Whether ten stars or ten-billion stars, what is your problem? You think you are very knowledgeable because you know there are hundred-billion galaxies. In what way does it matter whether there are hundred-billion or there are none? What way does it matter? Because you are not seeing stars, you are only seeing the reflection in your mind, isn’t it? If you spend time to know the nature of what makes you experience all this So, she asked me once something, so I just told her just this, “This is all you need to know about life. Never look up to anybody.” She looked at me like this (Gestures) I said, “Not even me, because the value of me will be completely lost the day you look up to me.” You must look at me just as I am, then you will see immense value for who I am. If you look up to me, you will miss everything and one day you want to hang me on your wall, as you did to everybody else, to Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Shiva, everybody, you hung them on your wall, you will hang me also on your wall. You will miss the entire value. You missed all those guys, now you’ll miss me also. You must look at me just the way I am. Never look up to anybody, never look down on anybody, this is all (Applause). Once you do not look up to anything or look down on anything, you will see everything just the way it is. If you see everything just the way it is, you will navigate your life through life effortlessly. Interviewer (Karan Johar): That’s true. That is simple theory and easy enough to live by (Sadhguru laughs). Thank you. Thank you Sadhguru. With that, I think I would like to open the questions up to the house and I am sure we have a volley of questions, which I can already see, hands going up in the air. I don’t even know where to start. Okay, yeah. Questioner (Rishabh): I’ve worked hard for this, please. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Sorry? Questioner (Rishabh): I’ve worked hard for this, please. Interviewer (Karan Johar): You’ve worked hard for this? Okay, then I suppose hard work should never go unfounded. Participant: Hello? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Is there a mike that is circulating? (Pause) Sadhguru: Okay, you can shout it. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah, if you have worked hard, you can scream loud (Sadhguru laughs). Yeah, there you go. Questioner (Rishabh): Namaste Sadhguru and hi Karan Johar. I am thirty-one. I have kept myself single all my life. so that I could accomplish Sadhguru: No, no, you should go back there, it’s… it doesn’t come to me, the sound. Questioner (Rishabh): Yeah. My name is Rishabh, I am thirty-one. I’ve kept myself single all my life, so I could accomplish (Sadhguru laughs) something big. And you of all people should know how important and difficult it is. Important because to accomplish something big, if you’re single, it helps without added responsibilities on your shoulders. And difficult because Sadhguru: I know you are trying to speak from your heart but microphone works best here (Gestures) (Laughter). Questioner (Rishabh): I just didn’t want to be too loud. Okay. And difficult because, India, they keep asking you why you are still single. I would like to space dive and I have talked to a million people about this and I have knocked on a hundred doors, to turned down every single time including the doors of ISRO (Referring to the Indian Space Research Organization). Sadhguru: I can’t hear a thing. Questioner (Rishabh): Including the doors of ISRO and they said they don’t have enough funds. Sadhguru: It’s a very long question and we have not heard most of it. Interviewer (Karan Johar): I can’t hear a thing actually, I am feeling incap Sadhguru: Yeah. Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is your question, Sir? Questioner (Rishabh): Okay, so my question is I would like to space dive Interviewer (Karan Johar): You would like to space? Questioner (Rishabh): Space dive. So it’s basically going all the way up to space Interviewer (Karan Johar): You want to go to space? Sadhguru: Okay. Questioner (Rishabh): And diving from there. Sadhguru: Okay. Interviewer (Karan Johar): And tie what in space? Participants: Dive. Questioner (Rishabh): It’s space dive. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Oh, space dive! Questioner (Rishabh): Yes. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Oh, you want to space dive? Questioner (Rishabh): Yes. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Okay. Questioner (Rishabh): So the thing is I have knocked on a hundred doors only to be turned down every single time because even ISRO turned me down saying they don’t have enough funds. Space dive is important because India has gone leaps and bounds forward in space technology, but in the human space psychology it’s way back. My question to you Sadhguru is My biggest weakness is I like to live in danger. My question to you Sadhguru is, where do I find an organization that will help me with the discipline, yoga and meditation that’ll help me with this? Participant: Isha Foundation. Questioner (Rishabh): And where do I find a person, most preferably a music… movie director, they’ll fund this project, understand the importance of it (Laughter/Applause) Sadhguru: Hey, you Questioner (Rishabh): …understand the importance of this project, that India needs a human space program, fund it and make a movie out of it, which has less drama, less songs and more of how a person struggles to get the mission accomplished. Thank you very much. Sadhguru: Okay, we got the question. You took a long time to get to the question but Interviewer (Karan Johar): He wants to space dive, he wants me to make a movie, he want to ____ (Unclear). Sadhguru: No, no, no, he wants money (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): He wants money. My dearest thirty-one year old – that’s all I heard, that you were thirty-one – if I had money, the last thing I would do is give it to you to space dive (Laughter). There’s many things that I would do with that money and yours is not on my bucket list. But would you like to answer his space diving? Sadhguru: The day after tomorrow, that’s on fifth – day after tomorrow is Interviewer (Karan Johar): Is the sixth. Sadhguru: I’m sorry, tomorrow… tomorrow evening tomorrow evening I am at the ISRO at Sriharikota for the launch (Referring to the launch of India’s heaviest rocket GSLV-Mk III, along with a communications satellite GSAT-19). Let me see if I can attach you to the rocket (Laughter/Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Thank you. Yes. Will you pass your mike on, Sir? Sadhguru: No, no Interviewer (Karan Johar): No. Sadhguru: …the boy is very serious. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah he is very serious about this (Sadhguru laughs). I don’t know… Would you Sadhguru: So about you being single (Laughter), you are sa you have saved one life (Applause). And I want to tell you, whether you space dive, or you don’t dive, or you nosedive (Laughter), all of us are born single and we die single. Tch, in between, what drama is… you do is up to you. So you want to do a single act, or a double act, or a multiple act, it’s up to you (Few laugh). But essentially, we are born single and we die single. And if you want to space dive This is comic book stuff. It means nothing. Do not waste your life. You are a young man. Don’t waste your life thinking, “I want to space dive, I want to do this and Karan is going to fund it.” He made is very clear, he has other ideas for his money and I am glad (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Well, you get married, that’s like space diving (Laughter/Applause). It’s the same thing. You don’t know where you are going, you are just diving (Laughter). Yes (Laughter). That’s true. Questioner: Namaskaram. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Namaskaram. Questioner: When I told my teenage daughter about this program, her immediate reaction was an excited wow. She is here with me and this program is everything we thought it would be. Question for you, Karan – what exactly inspired you to do this session with Sadhguru? Sadhguru: Whoa! Interviewer (Karan Johar): Thank you Ma’am. Sadhguru: He did not say he is inspired (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): I was, and the lady definitely has it right. It is because as I said somewhere that there are many questions that I constantly seek answers for. I find myself in a dilemma between my emotions, between my fears, my anxieties, my tussle internally between my letting go of religion and holding on to what I understand of spirituality. I haven’t been able to seek too many answers through the books I have read or the people I have heard. To me, Sadhguru has been a revelation in more ways than one because he made many of my answers the answers that I was looking for resonate with my life. And I think eventually, what we look for is deep resonance. And anything that you attach yourself to, be (it?) a spiritual energy, a god perhaps, a religion, you feel that you need to find answers within that resonance. And I felt that my life resonated with everything that you said and everything that you professed and that’s why I was very interested and excited to be part of this platform (Applause). Yes Sir, I’m sorry, I was meant to go to you first. Behind you, he’s… Sir, I’ll come back to you Sir. The mike Questioner: Thank you. Namaskaram Sadhguru, hello Karan. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Hi. Questioner: There are two questions. If the first one is answered, I don’t need the second one’s answer. This is a request – can I please get a hug from you, Sadhguru (Laughter/Applause). Sadhguru: Hey, why don’t you try him (Referring to Karan Johar) (Laughter/Applause)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Why am I a second in that line (Laughter)? Questioner: I didn’t name the person. Interviewer (Karan Johar): What is your second question? The first is you want a hug. Second is what? You can’t Don’t go into a kiss then because (Laughter) that might be detrimental. Questioner: No, just the presence of Sadhguru for the first time in my life, I just don’t want to miss it. I don’t know when will I will get the chance next, so if I could just (Laughter) I know it’s a difficult one. Sadhguru: No, no, nothing difficult about it. It is just that I have been working with people to make them understand People, especially outside the country and now unfortunately it’s caught up here, “Where is my hug, Sadhguru? Can I get my hug?” Tch, you are turning something beautiful into something very ugly. When you are in a certain state of inclusiveness, if it became necessary, you embrace somebody. It’s a very beautiful act. Now it’s a commodity, “Where is my hug?” It’s something (Laughs) that you give and take. It’s not a transaction. This is what religion has done – everybody hugs three times, or four times, or whatever number of times. This is not what it is. All the… the tenderness that a human being feels within himself or herself, you’re destroying it and make it into some kind of act. Okay, I will hug you, I’ll hug every one of you, what about it? Sweat exchange (Laughter)? So, this is something we need to do. And people also In India, this happens, they grab my hand and, “Sadhguru bless me” and they place it on their own head (Laughter). My Blessing will not come like this. Blessing will come when you become receptive, when you are in a certain way, if it’s blessed, something wonderful can happen out of it. Something tremendous can happen out of it. You grab my hand and (Gestures) (Laughter), what is that blessing? And if you grab my hand or foot or you hug me forcefully, this is called molestation (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): All right, you got your jadu ki jhappi (Referring to Hindi phrase – magical hug)? We had… Yes Sir, yeah. Questioner (Sanjeev Kapoor): Hello. Namaskar Sadhguru. I know a hug is not possible but you cook very good dosa. Is that possible (Laughter)? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Certainly not here (Laughter). Questioner (Sanjeev Kapoor): I know. No, my question is that when we cook, if we have to get joy (Applause) (Camera pans to him and people recognize celebrity chef Sanjeev Kapoor),
joy of cooking, then that joy is something which is internal and I cook for my joy. But when you are cooking for others, then you want to give them joy and at times there is a conflict. Who should win? Sadhguru: This is for him (Referring to Karan Johar)? Questioner (Sanjeev Kapoor): No Sir. Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, no, it’s for you only (Laughter). I have different things on my menu (Laughter). Sadhguru: See, let us not make everything This is the most fundamental thing about being spiritual or spiritual process means just this. You… Essentially, spiritual process means just this, that you live here like only you exist, nobody else but you. Because you see everybody as yourself and there is no issue. People ask me, “Sadhguru, wherever you go, whether it’s 10000 people or 100000 people, how do you speak?” “Ah, well I am talking to them like I’ve… if at I if I had the habit – I don’t have – if I had the habit of talking in front of my mirror, how I would speak to myself, that’s how I am speaking.” There is no You… You… What I am doing is not some kind of oratory or discourse. I am just talking like I would talk to myself because I don’t see anybody but myself. So, spiritual process means just this, that in some way you became all inclusive, in your experience you became all inclusive. So, one thing that has disappeared from your life is comparison and competition. Comparison starts and then it transforms itself into competition and then it goes into ugly things. So even for something as alive and as beautiful as joy Joy is (Laughs) Joy is the most important aspect of your life, you know. That is, joy means your experience of you being… your existence is fantastic. Your experience of your existence has become beautiful, that’s why you’re joyful. Now, I am not joyful because I make – I make the best dosas, not you, okay (Laughs) – not because I make the best dosas, nor will I be super joyful because I eat whatever the best things that you cook. Before I come into your restaurant, I’ll be very joyful. If you make something good, I will eat joyfully, if you make something bad very joyfully I will push it aside. But with your good cooking or bad cooking, you can’t steal my joy, nor can you give my joy. I want you also and everybody in the world become like this, that somebody else cannot determine what happens within you (Applause). because Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes Ma’am. Sadhguru: …you are you are calling fundamental sense of slavery that you get into with beautiful names. This is dangerous. So anyway, people are saying wonderful things about your cooking. They have not said anything about you, but they have said wonderful things about your cooking. I would like to eat one day (Laughter/Applause). I don’t know if I can afford it but (Laughter) Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes Ma’am. We’ll get a mike for you Ma’am. Questioner (Devika Patel): Namaste Sadhguruji, my name is Devika Patel and I’d like to ask you a question because you’re a mystic and even otherwise. Please don’t say, “I don’t care” because many people out here I’m sure do. My question is, what do you think of reincarnation? Do you believe in it and if so, can you elaborate on the subject and let us know what you were in your last birth? Thank you. Sadhguru: Now you’ve already put strictures on me (Few laugh) as to what I should not say. For me, last three lifetimes have been same work, around the same place and a few people… handful of people, same people. To such an extent that sometimes by mistake I end up calling them by old names. But you should not believe all this nonsense (Laughter/Applause). No, because the moment you believe it, you will look at this person and little if they are friendly with you, “Oh, maybe in my last life (Laughter), my past life.” It is very good you don’t remember a thing about anything because in your present life, you are not able to handle the emotional tangles and psychological involvements with people, if you remember ten lifetimes, you would break your mind. It takes an extraordinary sense of dispassion to download many lifetimes of memory and still not respond or react to those things and simply see it for what it is. In your present state, if such things happen, it’ll be a disaster. But anyway you should not believe these things because you should not believe anything or anybody. You should not disbelieve them either. Now, in such a large crowd I have a huge reputation of being very logically correct and now you’re making me say such stupid things. I’m staking my reputation. You must understand that I wouldn’t make that mistake (Few laugh) because I don’t gain anything by talking about this. Because you insisted that I should not dismiss it But essentially, what you’re asking is – let me translate this question for you, essentially what you’re asking is – when you say, “Is there a past life or is there a future life?” what you’re asking is, “Beyond this body, is there something more?” This is all you’re asking, “After my death or before my birth, was there something else?” This is the question. Or you are asking, “What is the nature of my existence?” Well, that’s my full-time business, to bring you to that experience as to what is the nature of your existence. You must come. You should not ask just a casual question here in Mumbai and disappear. Now you made me say illogical things in front of all these people, now you must invest some time to know what is the nature of your existence, otherwise it’s entertainment question (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): I don’t know, you have a color you like (Laughs)? I don’t know who to ask? Sadhguru: He is working hard but after him (Referring to a previous questioner) I am afraid of hard-working (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes, yes, yes, hard-working in blue (Sadhguru laughs). Participant: Can I have mike or can I speak like this? Interviewer (Karan Johar): No, no, no we’ll get you a mike. We have just two questions after this gentlemen. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah, yeah, I am going to get there, right there. Questioner (Aishwarya Nigam): Namaskaram Sadhguru, namaskaram Karan Sir. Sadhguru: Please somebody give a mike to that lady who is up there with her hand up, after this boy is over, yeah? Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yeah, yeah. Questioner (Aishwarya Nigam): Pranam Sadhguru, my name is Aishwarya Nigam and I have been to the ashram many times and I have read many of your books. Sadhguru: You must quickly come to the question, everybody is waiting. Questioner (Aishwarya Nigam): The question is, Sadhguru, I’m stuck here I want you please guide me, tell me in a child’s language what is the answer and what is the solution. I don’t want to give importance to my own thoughts and emotions, tell me how, please make me understand (Few applaud). I don’t know when will I get this mike again although I’m always in your presence, but I want the answer Sadhguru, I don’t want to ____ (Unclear). Sadhguru: When you get out of this hall, start walking south (Applause). If it’s a genuine question, if it’s a question which truly matters, you must seek. I would have gone to the ends of the world, if I found somebody, who could answer the billion questions I had. If really it matters to you, the question, you must seek, if you think going south is the answer. If you don’t think so, you shouldn’t bother with me. If you think so, you shouldn’t waste a moment of your life because I want everybody to at least be straight and in some basic integrity to your life. You ask big questions and you leave it and go sit in the matinee show. Tch, I’m not saying you should not go to the matinee, I’m sorry (Laughter). I’m saying the wrong things, wrong examples (Laughter). Interviewer (Karan Johar): That’s fine, no offense taken (Both laugh). Sadhguru: So, I want you to understand People… Somebody came and ask me recently, “Sadhguru, are you a devotee of Shiva?” I said “You fool, did you ever see me sitting somewhere and doing Shiva pooja? Did you see me? My entire bloody life, I have invested in you, all right? There is nothing else I do, except constantly seeing how to raise people to the next step. And you are asking me, am I devoted to somebody. I’m bloody devoted to you and you are not seeing it” (Laughs) (Applause). So, when you ask this question, I take the question seriously, I believe you’re genuine. But then you go and get drunk today evening. I am not against any of those things, matinee or drink or this or that. All I am saying is you must have some integrity to your life. When you ask a big question, you must make the investment, isn’t it, of time and energy? You must invest life because to bloody answer this, I’ve invested my entire life (Laughs). Yes (Applause). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Sadhguru, you had pointed out, there was Yes. To the lady right at the back. Sadhguru: That lady, please (Laughs). Questioner: I have a question. Interviewer (Karan Johar): One moment Sir, we’re just going to the lady and then we’ll get Where, who is that person? Questioner: Here, right. Sadhguru: She still doesn’t have the microphone. He is on, on it. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Okay, you’re on the mike, all right go ahead. Questioner: Namaskaram Sadhguruji. My question is, what can be the greatest change one can bring to our life to make it more blissful in this birth? Sadhguru: You got to change. Interviewer (Karan Johar): You have to? Sadhguru: You got to change, I said (Laughs). Interviewer (Karan Johar): You got to change. Sadhguru: There’s nothing else (Laughs). You think by doing something else, this (Referring to oneself) will become blissful? No. This one (Referring to oneself) has to change to become blissful. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Yes, the lady, has she got the mike? Yes, just reaching you Ma’am. Questioner: Namaskar to one and all. Sir, my question is, I get very attached easily and now I feel I’m very attached to my responsibilities. So how do I break this bondage and if I really want to do something for myself, not for anybody, just to feel the joy that I’ve been listening to you, if I want to really, really feel that joy, how do you I break the bondage of responsibilities and move ahead and how do I overcome my attachments? Sadhguru: Oh (Laughs). I want you to understand that responsibility is never a bondage. Responsibility means you chose to respond to something wholeheartedly, so it is never a bondage. And how is it opposing your joy, I don’t understand. Because to what extent you have the ability to respond, only to that extent you know life. If you lose your ability to respond, you become dead. In fact, somebody is dead means they’ve lost all ability to respond, that’s all it is. So, don’t ever think your responsibility is stopping you from being joyful. If you had no responsibilities (Laughs), many of you would be freaked to madness. You are fortunate you got something to dabble with. Nothing to do, I’ll keep you in a room, nothing to do, I’ll feed you well, you’ll go crazy. You must be glad there are distractions for your madness. So, you must understand this. If… If your experience of life is such that if you sit here, you start enjoying your existence – not your thought, not your emotion, not your action, your existence if you start enjoying – you have a certain joy and blissfulness about your very existence, then all this jargon doesn’t work. If that one thing has not happened to you, you are in a desperate condition, you have to do a million things to know a little bit of pleasantness. But tell me sincerely, genuinely, in a twenty-four hour segment, how many moments of actual joy do you know? Most people can count on their fingers, many people have nothing to count. They will say “Oh, the day I got married, I was so happy. The day I got my job, I was so happy.” It happened, it’s history. Because it is externally instigated, otherwise by yourself you will become a wreck. Please change this, then all these jargons and philosophies are irrelevant to you because you know the joy of your existence. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Thank you (Applause). We have one last question. Yes Sir. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Hmm? Haa, haa, I’m just going from this gentleman, I’ll come to you. Maybe two Yes Participant: Sadhguru Interviewer (Karan Johar): I’ll leave that to Sadhguru, after this how many more he’d like to answer (Laughs), but yes. Questioner (Mohit Saldana): Sadhguruji Namaskaram. Karanji namaskaram. Interviewer (Karan Johar): Namaskaram. Questioner (Mohit Saldana): I’m Mohit Saldana, I’ve come from Karnal just to see you live and I’m feeling blissfully blessed. I didn’t come with the question but now I have a question. Sadhguruji, you just made a mention that world does not know anything about you. And that remains a fact. Even then, any so body world who comes in little contact with you gets so much benefitted. So when would you reveal? Or my question is, what does it take to become a Arjuna for the yogi of highest order of our times, our Krishna, the you to reveal (Sadhguru laughs)? Sorry if that question is still invalid. Sadhguru: This is This is difficult to articulate without sounding all wrong because See, everybody is working or everybody is trying to live their life with different frames that they have created for themselves. You can call this mindsets, you can call this framework, you can call this family, you can call this society, you can call this ethics, morals, ideologies, whatever. These are all frameworks you created. But you understand, a frame means you are putting a self-imposed limitation upon yourself. I can understand, he being a director-producer, he’s thinking of frames, because he’s thinking of capturing something for doing something else. I’m asking you a simple question, do you want to capture this life (Referring to oneself) or do you want to experience this life? Hello? Participants: Experience. Sadhguru: You want to experience this life (Referring to oneself). You’re here to experience this life (Referring to oneself) and no other reason. Everything else is secondary. When I say life, when I use the word life, most of you will think “Oh, my work, family, my home, my car, my dog.” That’s not life, these are all accessories to life. You added all these accessories, believing that with these accessories, your life will get enhanced. But your money, your wealth, your family, your relationships, these are all just accessories, isn’t it? The real thing is here (Referring to oneself), never experienced. So, to first make somebody I’m… You know, there’re many wonderful people around me. This is the biggest wealth I have. I have some truly, absolutely fabulous people around me all the time. They won’t let me pass through a single day without tears of joy, love, ecstasy. Without witnessing this, a single day won’t pass for me, no matter which part of the world I am in. I don’t think there’s better wealth in the world, in the physical world, in the human societies, than that, that constantly you’re surrounded by people, who are shedding tears of love and ecstasy. Having said that, their experience might have become beautiful by being in a certain presence, by realizing a few things, but still… they still have frameworks because very few individuals have the sense of a total sense of abandon to be here without framework. As long as you’re with the framework, we can add one drop here, one drop there. One more drop means it’ll break. So in my life, if (Laughs) by the time I fall dead, if I can share maybe one or two percentages of what I have known, I think I’m very fortunate. Because I’m still looking, I’ve not given up on it, there can always be one or two individuals who’ll come up. We have been working on them, preparing them, so that somebody can exist here without any sense of frames, without any sense of what will be lost. There are many people around me, who, you know, in every action that they do – they’re not saying it verbally – in every action that they do, they show that they’re willing to die for me, I keep reminding them in a thousand ways, dying for me is not the answer. That you are willing to allow this life (Referring to oneself) to happen in full flow, this is where the answer is. Because only if you’re a full-fledged life, can I share what’s happening within me. Otherwise, I’m talking about extending your frames, giving you a different frame which is more difficult to manipulate (Laughs). But totally undoing the frames will need this, that you are a full-fledged life. When I say a full-fledged life, right now you have invested too much in your thought, too much in your emotion, you look up to something, you look down on something, you like something, you dislike something. In this state, it cannot be done. I am working on people, o lots of them, and I’m also scanning the world because there could be s… anybody somewhere. Because that will be a blessing, not to me, but to the world. If… If there can be human beings, not one, if there can be a thousand human beings on this planet, or if can be 10000 human beings, or a million human beings, who are just life, no bull, just life, because this is the only thing that you’re aspiring for. You may think you want money, you may think you want pleasure, you may think you want something – no. You are only wanting to… having a larger slice of life somehow, isn’t it? That’s all there is. Because that is all there is. You think money will get that, education will get that, love will get that, pleasure will get that, but essentially you want a larger slice of life. So if you want in slices, we will cut it and serve it because we have to keep you going, otherwise you’ll run away (Laughs). But I want to see you, a day when I can throw life at you just like that, without making slices out of it. That would be a great day. Make it happen (Applause). Because I want to change I want to change the perception of what is street. If you say street, if you use the word street, people will think booze, people will think drugs, people will think prostitution, all the ugly things. If we do the right things, in the next twenty, twenty-five years, we can change this, that street means beauty, street means love, street means meditativeness, street means spiritual process, street means the highest things. We can do this, if we are willing. We have the tools, we have the means. Why I’m saying this is, never before Many great beings have come, but nobody had the means that we have today. A Krishna came, a gentle being – when he spoke, only one man heard. Yes? And another man overheard (Few laugh). When Adiyogi Shiva came, only seven people heard. Today we have the ability, we can sit here and speak to every human being on the planet. Never before this was possible. Now we have such an ability to communicate, if we do not communicate the right things, we are committing a crime against humanity. So when we have this kind of power to communicate, whatever is the highest dimension of life should become street. I My essential work is this, to bring down spirituality from mountaintops to street (Applause). That’s why my language is little street (Both laugh). Interviewer (Karan Johar): Not at all. With that, I’m sorry we won’t be able to take any more questions, we’ve reached the end of this Conversation with the Mystic and thank you Sadhguru. Thank you for your words, your wisdom (Applause) and everything that you always bring (Sadhguru laughs) to the energy table of our universe. Thank you so much, it’s truly been an honor. Thank you. And thank you to all of you for being a wonderful audience. Thank you (Applause).

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